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> Same-sex Marriage
Stephen C.
post Nov 28 2007, 11:43 AM
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Please follow the link to vote

Same-Sex Marriage Poll

Refrence Links

What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality

Reasons for approving same-sex marriage Report

moved topic to lava pit, as this seemed perhaps to be a better venue - d'rbeh

This post has been edited by d'rbeh: Nov 28 2007, 12:16 PM
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d'rbeh
post Nov 28 2007, 04:49 PM
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thanks for the topic stephen.

i haven't visited the links, but probably will in future. i just never think about it - it's cut and dried to me:

i have no problem at all with the concept of GLBT people marrying or even being together at all...

((( just for the record )))


This post has been edited by d'rbeh: Nov 28 2007, 04:50 PM


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Lord Chaos
post Nov 28 2007, 07:53 PM
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My interactions with gay people over the years have always been cordial. I believe very strongly in live and let live; after all, I'm hardly a glowing example of normalcy.

So, it was interesting to read the well-written article and feel... not sure what to call it. Although I would never judge anyone for their choices, I still have this residual feeling that gay marriage is wrong. Something dredged up from the past. It's a good article, and well worth reading. Very thought-provoking.


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Michi
post Nov 28 2007, 11:42 PM
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Once upon a time marriage ceremonies were preformed in religious settings, with approval of religious leaders. If marriage was strictly religious in nature and the marriage in question was against the religion, then a refusal to marry a couple could be understood. -Some religions do accept same-sex couples and as long as the pair belonged to such a group, the couple could marry (hypothetically, if only churches made the decision).

Religious ceremonies still happen, but there are now many marriages which are legal and not religious. A legal marriage certificate entitles spouses to certain privileges, opportunities and responsibilities. As a country that supposedly accepts people of different orientations and even has laws to help protect people (to remain safe physically, emotionally, to retain a job) and has a code of "separation of church and state"; I find it interesting that this country (U.S.) has largely based the refusal to accept gay marriage upon the bible and religious-based beliefs.


My parents were together for nearly 10 years before divorcing. My brother and his boyfriend have been together much longer than that. They are great together and my brother has become a better person during his relationship.

My only problem with his being gay is that we are the only two children and the family has all the pressure on me to get married and have children!


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Stephen C.
post Nov 28 2007, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE (Michi @ Nov 28 2007, 11:42 PM) *
My parents were together for nearly 10 years before divorcing. My brother and his boyfriend have been together much longer than that. They are great together and my brother has become a better person during his relationship.

My only problem with his being gay is that we are the only two children and the family has all the pressure on me to get married and have children!


Here is a sugestion. You could always have surgate mother. It is expensive but that is a option. That is also a option for your brother also.
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gaiasmaiden
post Nov 29 2007, 10:02 AM
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i read one of the 2 links yesterday and found it rather interesting
i believe that a person joins with the second half of their soul
whether that be man or woman
as a pagan i have no problems with my belief saying same sex marriages were wrong because it doesn't say that
my husband on the other hand thinks like many anti-gays
he will not treat a gay or lesbian like a lower class person but he does think it is wrong and goes against god
but i don't think he will ever change

This post has been edited by gaiasmaiden: Nov 29 2007, 10:03 AM


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Michi
post Nov 29 2007, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE
Here is a sugestion. You could always have surgate mother. It is expensive but that is a option. That is also a option for your brother also.


My brother and his boyfriend once talked about adopting. That was a long time ago though and now their schedules are crazy. Can't say for sure, but it looks like they have moved passed wanting to have/adopt children.
As for me, I wouldn't mind having children but I would prefer to do so with a husband. Gotta get him first. wink3.gif


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Ged
post Dec 11 2007, 11:36 AM
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Living in the highly liberal (laugh.gif) UK we have civil partnerships over here. It's interesting how the Christian influence on politics over here (and a lot of Europe) is so different to the US. Whilst Bush and Blair both have very strong faith, they have adopted completely different views on this issue (shame about Iraq). Even so, a lot of effort was spent in making it very clear that this was not gay marriage in any religious sense, but to equate it to non-religious civil services. I don't know whether you have them over in the US, I guess you probably do.

Hopefully the bf and I will sort out a CP next year, we've been together 7 and a half years, so it's probably time!
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Etheldred
post Jun 22 2008, 02:36 PM
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I am totally in favour of anyone having the right to a ceremony to celebrate their commitment to each other.


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Tomala
post Jun 22 2008, 08:59 PM
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I have no problems with two people of the same sex sharing a union. I think that's pretty cool. cool.gif
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Kaym
post Jun 30 2012, 03:04 PM
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This is amazing to me that so many people could be so wrong. Marriage MEANS a union between a man and a woman. For generations and generation this has been the best situation to raise children. If you want to leave sex out of it, you can live together and have every freedom that other people in this country have. But same sex is perverted and shouldn't happen. Now, do I have the nerve to post this. Yes, I do, you stated your opinion and this is mine.
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Kon'Dor
post Jul 2 2012, 04:34 PM
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It's amazing to me that when someone has an opinion that differs from that of others, they declare that everyone else is wrong. Isn't that a symptom of a Napoleon complex? The joining of elements is also referred to as a marriage and, specially in Europe, a machinist will refer to the joining of two parts as a marriage. Only the audacious or indoctrinated would dare to re-write the English language based on some unsubstanciated belief ( like religion ). The word Marriage MEANS much more than a union between a man and a woman.

According to the Trinity doctrine, God exists as three persons, or hypostases, but is one being. In other words, your God is a "marriage" of three parts that make one whole. So established religion says that to become one, you need not be a man and a woman, you can be virtually anything, even the metaphysical.

Sorry but I personally think logic trumps Holy Ghosts and burning bushes but, by the same token, if that is what it takes to make someone happy, be my guest. I am hetrosexual but I am not threatened by same sex marriages. What fuels your fear?

Same sex is no more perverted than thinking that you are more right than "your words" so many others. Perversion is in the mind of the beholder.

Now, do I have the nerve to post this? Yes I do, you stated your opinion and this is mine.


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Robyn
post Jul 3 2012, 11:36 PM
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Thank you, Kon'Dor. I was oh so tempted to make the same comment on the definition from the perspective of engineering and technology, as we often use it that way in the automation industry.

From a religious context, the definition is even more complex, depending on not only the "brand", but the time period and context, even within the Jewdeo-Christian frame and its various sects. Any single definition is going to alienate whatever subgroup that doesn't happen to agree with it. I would note, however, that the limited definition being proclaimed so vociferously now by certain people as being "right" is a relatively recent invention.

MY opinion is that Governments have absolutely no right or authority to legislate what constitutes a "Marriage". But a close partnership of whatever sort should have the same privileges and benefits under the law, otherwise that becomes discrimination based upon religion. (S*e*x has absolutely nothing to do with it.) If you want to call such a joining a "Marriage" within the context of your particular religion, that's fine, but the legal definition, as far as rights and obligations within the larger secular world might be more properly called a "civil union", or by some other name for a partnership.

Perhaps we should just require that anyone wanting to create such a partnership be required to file as a type of corporation. Then it wouldn't matter what genders, religions, or other differences are involved as far as the Law is concerned, letting them add whatever form of marriage vows or conditions they choose, as these would have no standing or meaning under the secular law.

The moment anyone dares to try to force their religious beliefs on others through government legislation, that's when I become alarmed! This includes the "anti religious" actions of groups like the American Civil Liberties Union, who want to eliminate religious symbols from public places under a false definition of "separation of Church and State." This attitude is just as dangerous and ludicrous.


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He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
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"Political correctness is tyranny with manners"
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
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Kon'Dor
post Jul 4 2012, 10:04 AM
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Thank you Robyn.

Let me clarify one little thing. I am an Atheist. ( Yes they do exist and please let us not start a sub-thread on that ) but I also subscribe to the belief that everyone should be allowed to make their own choice when it comes to a belief in the existance or non-existance of a higher power. If a person or persons decide that same sex marriage is not acceptable based on those beliefs, they should have the freedom to abide by that choice but they do not have the right to foist their beliefs on others. If a group of believers form a club or a church, they "collectively" should have a right to their beliefs. In other words, the ______ Church of _______ ( fill in the blanks ) may refuse to conduct or believe in same sex marriage but they have no right to force anyone one person or group of persons to adhere to the same belief.

To bring this back down to earth however, we are talking mainly about the use of a word. The word is "Marriage". Marriage may be used to describe a union of two people or things but, the expression "Civil Union" is not exactly appropriate in all the same cases. The words, IMHO, are not synonyms. Joe and Harry got married. The top and the bottom of the machine married perfectly but, the engine block and the cylinder head "civil unioned" without problem, I think not. Hiding behind a word or phrase that does not always cover the situation is a band aid solution at best and does not fix the problem. It also does not afford a same sex couple with the diginity and respect they have every right to expect. To say " I am married but you are just a couple by civil contract" is denigrating a group of human beings. I may not fully understand the genetics or mechanics or the physical and emotional nuiances of a same sex union but, be damned if I will sit upon some self erected throne and look down on those who do. Someone famous ( name and details escape me ) once said something to the effect of " we may not always agree but I will fight for your right to disagree ".

I may or may not agree but I would have no problem with someone who said that Joe and Harry got married, Bill and Mary had a Christian Marriage ceremony in our church, the two village atheists joined in a civil union and the thought of Republicans and Democrates agreeing on anything is just Perversion.... laugh.gif It is their right to their opinion. I, however, would be more likely to say, Joe, Harry, Bill, Mary and two atheists got married and the Republican and the Democrate.... well, best leave that alone.

The Government Has No Place In The Bedrooms Of The Nation
Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau


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d'rbeh
post Jul 17 2012, 10:35 PM
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it always kind of fascinated me why marriage between people of the same sex should bother anyone else. i mean - why? are they forcing you to attend their marriage? are they invading and eliminating your personal freedoms?

no.

so, the issue of whether or not people of the same sex should not matter to anyone who is not involved. if it does matter, then like kon'dor said, there has been plenty of indoctrinating going on - pushing people to believe a certain way, all in the guise of "morality".

as for separation of church and state, i believe it should be completely separated. unless of course, each township, each local government, etc. would be perfectly fine with allowing representations of each and EVERY religion to be displayed publicly on public grounds. for example, if the christians are able to set up a nativity set, why not allow the wiccans or other religions to erect items/altars, etc. of things that are important in their religion? fair is fair.



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